I’m typing with my mi 5x that has been a beast just like my RN3. Although I love Xiaomi I’m trying to avoid buying Chinese products in general, especially those products that are simply cheap plastic that won’t survive normal use.
My main reason for a boycott mindset against China is because the CCP doesn’t represent the Chinese people, they silence the people and create propaganda to preserve stability within mainland and finally they piss on the human dignity of Uighurs and HongKong protestors.
My internal conflict is Xiaomi, whether we like to admit it or not by buying these products we are helping the CCP. The reason I can justify the xiaomi phones is because they are really good devices that have solid components, are cheap and have been really durable in my experience. Another reason I support xiaomi is they don’t just use Chinese components within their devices
For extra clarification: I have not one problem against Chinese people and wish them good health, education and contentment. I simply am disgusted in the Chinese government and I don’t think we should engage with them in a business manner because it gives them more power
I feel I have an internal contradiction with wanting to support xiaomi but no desire to support the CCP.
If this dialogue has already happened please share the link.
What are your opinions?
PS: congrats xiaomi on the budget award from mkbhd for the K20 (pro?)
Hope everyone’s having nice Christmas holidays
☮️
Edit: typo
Edit2: certainly got a dialogue rolling now. Thanks for all your comments whether we agree or disagree 🙂 idea diffusion is a lovely thing however I’m a little putt off u/iVarun ‘s conversational style
im broke so I gotta. still feel guilty tho
I feel guilty supporting USA too but what can you do? 🙂
I feel you, student life isn’t making me a moral consumer :/ but better late than never
Maybe south Korea’s a solid option, Samsung aren’t cheap but they’re very decent
edit: well shit, everythings tainted, still, thats no reason to not keep searching for the slightly less tainted producer for the things we need
+ grammar
Indeed, plus they have good tech.
I mean… i’d bet half the stuff you own inside your house was made in China. It’s stuff we simply can’t avoid since they play a huge part in world distribution. Even some of the materials used to make your toilet probably came from China which is why you shouldn’t give a shit. Pretty much the entire world claims they support and want freedom in China but don’t actually do anything meaningful to aid them. And no… retweeting is not gonna take down a government. So don’t feel guilty, and just buy what you want/need with your hard earned money.
I hate the mainlands too. But the reason I still put my trust on Xiaomi because they’re not selling any network device. Fuck Huawei and ZTE though.
Also if you’re still feels morally wrong and paranoid I can recommend you Asus (yes, Taiwanese are on western side like Japanese, and South Korean), Samsung and HMD’s Nokia device.
This is a joke right?
It’s just a phone.
Whether you are like or hate CCP, China is advancing and getting better, and unfortunately it’s fact.
You only see superficial news about Hong Kong and Uigur, your prejudice is about silent Chinese people are oppressed by CCP. However, there are also silent Chinese focus on themselves, work like everybody else in the world for better life. When you think about human rights like tree hugging lefties think using Chinese phone is helping CCP for doing more bad things. But unfortunately nearly all smartphones on the market are made in China, even company like Xiaomi and oppo have factories in India but a lots of components are still made in China. Does that make you feel better?
Oh by the way, Apple iPhone not only relies Chinese supply chain and iOS would send browsing data to China by default.
When Apple refuses to unlock iPhone for CIA, FBI etc, meanwhile China have own iCloud server can access data without Apple permission.
And unfortunately you can do nothing about it.
One could say by using american products we are supporting the occupation in Afghanistan, Iraq and other countless countries where usa uses military drones. If we are travelling on an airbus or boeing flights, then again we are support wars. So there is no point in thinking like that. In fact by using these Chinese phones you are actually helping the poor workers who are working on those factories.
Not sure. I think he’s being serious.
While I appreciate your concern, like it or not, there is no escape. With few exceptions, every time you buy/consume anything, you are financing opresion and death somewhere else.
No matter which phone you buy, it will use coltan, which is extracted by slave kids in Africa. By buying a phone, you’re funding wars, slavery …
Most apps nowadays, no matter where their developers are from, sell user’s data. In areas with ”strong” privacy laws, like Europe, it might be something like ”soneone in France likes pizza and videogames”, which is extremely innocent, but it’s funding a much larger industry that in other places (dictatorships in Africa or Asia) will send innocent people to jail, or their deaths. By using a phone and having a Reddit account, I’m indirectly funding a data mining company that will help identify someone in China as an “enemy of the state”.
Finally, your phone is, what, one trillionth or less of the Chinese economy? Whether you buy a Xiaomi or not, the commie govt will not notice your protest.
Dude, if you read up Samsung is definitely NOT a company to support.
They are basically a mafia shadow government
Hahaha how will this dude live when he finds out probably 95% of his stuffs are chinese
Source on this?
There are many documentaries on the “Samsung’s cities”. They are nearly slaves (they are paid but almost all is taken in rent, electricity, food, etc).
Check this on
I don’t really care, I’m from Brazil, probably one of the most corrupt countries ever, so before I can even dream about talking about other countries I have to take a big look at my own.
I can’t find any can you PM me a link to the documentaries you are talking about. The only one I could possibly find was called the empire of Samsung
At a Christmas party rn but look up chaebols, Samsung CEO who’s now in jail, their “communities” and their ties to the government. Haunting stuff.
South Korea is basically Cyberpunk 2020 irl
But you can still minimize poor consumer decisions right? I don’t know if I should go defeatist on this one. Totally right, they play a damn big role and thats concerning
As a south african, i feel you brother.
Cries in BRICS
The US was spying on my phones before China did. At least Xiaomi has the decency of giving me a good phone for my money.
Fairphone is the only option
Whaaaaaat, Asus is Taiwanese?
Edit, just had a look, that’s awesome 🙂 Asus are producing some good stuff and Taiwan is amazing. went there with my bro a few years back beautiful place that preserved Chinese history 🙂 would recommend
Edit: just want to clarify, by mainlands do you mean mainland Chinese or the mainland government?
Yep. Legit made by Taiwanese, like Acer, Mediatek and Foxconn.
del5eted.
The US hasn’t made electronics in decades. Hell Xiaomi deserves it more than Apple who just profits from China without giving anything back.
LMFTFY:
> What’s your thoughts on supporting USA companies? I love X but I hate that I am directly helping the USA by buying products from USA.
Some view the “amazing” USA as similar evil as China… You can throw Russia into the mix for the kicks.
IMHO, recently – I’m even less favourable towards USA than China o_O
How did you get data on me? Someone in France likes pizza and videogames is oddly similar.
Jokes aside, I’m proud to be in a country that has strong data protection laws. Even if my mi mix 2s probably don’t care
The US spies far more than China, has concentration camps and legal slavery.
Pick your poison.
Just search up Chaebol.
But tbh, don’t bother. If you went that far then you shouldn’t buy any German stuff because all of our companies had some involvement with the Nazis.
*cough cough* Volkswagen
Amongst others
Please share your sources
There is also the Librem 5.
I am also interested in sources. They spy, yes. They have the terrorist prison camp, yes but haven’t seen concentration camps and slavery.
Unless it’s hardware-based Spyware.. 😮
I’m so happy that someone is talking about this, cause it’s my personal struggle every day. I’m a happy user of a RN5 (pro). While I’m not here to give you any solution about this complex question, I’m here to remind everyone (also to the chinabots) that China and USA aren’t the same. While it may be true that both of them spies you and your activity, it’s very important to remember that one is a democracy in which workers have rights, their conditions are (mostly) humane and there’s the freedom of expression, the other one is a dictatorship in which workers are in slavery conditions. They are definitely not the same
That’s a really interesting concept , but it’s a bit expensive.
Didnt know they sourced all their stuff from conflict free regions
It could be cheaper with mass production.
Cobalt* not coltan.
I actively want to support Xiaomi.
That’s true
You seem highly misinformed about fundamentals on this subject matter.
> I have not one problem against Chinese people and wish them good health, education and contentment. I simply am disgusted in the Chinese government..
This is the oft repeated refuge-argument of those who want to rile against China in some way but don’t want to appear to be Xenophobic in some way. And in doing it like this they bend over backwards and end up compromising their own argument.
Here is the fundamental fact for you. Chinese people not only support their Govt but do so by a scale which is unprecedented on the planet.
You thus making a distinction are in fact chiding the Chinese People who you seem to be so sympathetic to. The Chinese People decided their Govt is not just fine, it is Excellent.
You thus can not use that vector to bolster your own subjective argument, it in fact renders it moot.
Secondly.
Do you even read world history or even contemporary one?
Do you know how many People, i.e. Human Beings the US/G5/G14 security apparatus is responsible for killing and basically devastating them on a generational timescale?
Do you know who or what Snowden is or did?
Last time China was in a war was 1979. It is coming off 150 years of Institutional mess, it will take time to stand on its feet.
What excuse does US have.
TLDR, your concern is disingenuous and borderline xenophobic when dissected critically.
Are any of those things not public knowledge?
I’m on mobile so I’m just gonna say what you should look up.
The Patriot act.
Internment camps for refugees. (They’re literal by the book concentration camps.)
13th amendment and prison labour.
Why
Why do you support the CCP?
Edit: this user is also in the r/Sino community
Your social score just went up, comrade.
What does his comment have to do with xenophobia? Do you even know what country this person is from?
I think you are confusing the argument.
And please elaborate on where he is misinformed about the fundamentals, I’d like to know
Why are you talking about the US when this is about Xiaomi? One country spying more does not make the original subject any less “wrong” or bad
I’m interested in what you wrote. However, I don’t agree with your conclusions regarding the xenophobic nature of my statement. Is it xenophobic to dislike a government? I’m sensing a strong subjective view from your side, especially after seeing that you post on r/Sino.
check out r/sino to anyone that wants to open a twisted pandora’s box. u/iVarun has posted there before and that place only allows views that align with china (CCP), no discourse, no reconsideration or self-critique of the system.
This is the typical issue with people defending a communist system, the defence is that the opposing system (usually democracy) is riddled with flaws which is TOTALLY true! I agree with you if you were to make that case, I would agree that wrongdoings have been made by western countries and that western systems are inferior in some respects. However, I can safely (within reasonable parameters) think, say, write and post these ideas without the risk of harm to myself or my family. If you were chinese and did that you would be in danger. This is not an exaggeration and I wish i was wrong.
regardless, there’s a lot of world history and i’m definitely no expert on that and always have more to learn. I’m happy to receive some information from you, just no bs, please.
Xenophobic: having or showing a dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries
(i would like to repeat that your point about me being xenophobic is utter bollocks.
I understand that you disagree with my opinion and I can see you’re trying to find/arrogantly state a moral flaw is a common (rather defensive) move.
If you could share how you made your mind up on this matter i would genuinely like to know. PM or respond here is all g for me 🙂
damn i am not alone thinking this
An Argentinian here,
You are getting a place in BRICS?
also, Europe isn’t such a bad option as long as your wallet can handle the price tag.
Yeah, those thousands of Chinese people that wouldnt otherwise have jobs . Apple does absolutely nothing .
What spyware does Xiaomi use? Hardware or software?
> country this person is from?
My comment didn’t even ask this because it doesn’t matter since what he wrote was enough on its own.
> his comment have to do with xenophobia?
*xenophobia: dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries.*
Explicitly stating he has issue with something Chinese is bordering on xenophobia if not outright being it.
It is so because the fundamental here is That which is the used to justify this stance IS NOT even unique or special(term it X) to said place.
Meaning OP is making an explicit distinction of his own accord, that if something X happens, since it is the Chinese which are part of it, it is problematic, disgusting to quote OP.
A) So freaking what. On top of having choice to being with.
B) As stated in the previous comment, check the alternative’s history and conduct, the answer is self-obvious IF one is not ignoring that special/unique thing a certain country/people/govt did/does.
This becomes relevant because the contrast is made and xenophobia requires that contrast of Us-Them/Others and so on.
There’s nothing you can do about it so don’t stress it.
Oh no, now you’ve shattered his belief that USA is the best and greatest country that ever was, is, and will be.
They give me a lot for what I pay and they forced other companies to follow that way.
Why supporting xiaomi equals to supporting CCP? You are supporting hundreds and thousands of hardworking people who make xiaomi and your support improves their standards of living.
While I don’t mean to down play the problems that Brazil has, the corruption there like a large part of South America is a very different thing from the human rights problems occuring in China.
Ford as well. Ford Germany had ties to the nazis. Can’t enjoy cars then I guess.
So if I say I dislike Chinese tea would I be xenophobic too? What if I said I didn’t like Coka-Cola? Would I be xenophobic?
Sorry. Nope, just because he dislikes a political party that happens to be Chinese and questions the ethics of buying a product does not make him xenophobic. He doesn’t say ALL (to him) foreign people or brands are bad.
You in turn make your stance quite clear.
It is quite common to try to distract a conversation by smearing someones moral character in order to devalue their opinion.
I suggest you try to change your tactics and instead focus on the actual topic.
Would you say buying products of Chinese origin is ethical/unethical? Or do you think it has actually nothing to do with ethics? I would like to know YOUR opinion because I am actually interested in what you have to say. I can be convinced.
And I don’t care much for American brands, so I won’t be convinced by defamation of the US. Because this conversation is about Xiaomi, a brand from China
Oh, what if OP is from China? He can’t be xenophobic then, right? It is important if you use the term xenophobia actually
Merry Christmas to you as well.
I often think about this, basically every time I read stuff about China in the news. I used to order like 10 aliexpress packages a month, nowadays I don’t really buy anything directly from China if I have a choice (and the money).
It’s true that a lot of countries do bad things, my own country included, China however is on a whole other level. The way I justify owning a Chinese device is pretty lame but its still true: almost every mobile phone you buy is going to be manufactured in China, including iPhones it’s almost impossible to avoid.
Also while I am not denying my own responsibility as a consumer, I still think that a lot of the responsibility lies with the international community and our governments whom just because of money, decide to put up with the shit China pulls off. Countries should put huge tariffs on Chinese made goods (which the USA might start doing soon, even though they have different reasons), if 30 or 40 countries do this, this would send a way more powerful message than some consumer boycotts that China isn’t even going to notice because of their huge markets in India an Africa (people in these countries generally aren’t as concerned as we are about human rights) and if this happens something might actually change for the first time.
I’m from Brazil as well. Our problems are not really comparable to what is happening in Hong Kong.
Thanks. Damn well written. Yes definitely, I hope Europe increases the tariffs also. It’s definitely harder for developing countries and totally understandable that they don’t but damn that would make a difference. I feel developed countries should take this as a international moral responsibility. Thanks again
It’s what the current Republicans wish the USA was. They’re trying hard though.
“my vote doesnt matter”
wow lots of r/sino soldiers here.
I have only ever had xiaomi phones but my next phone won’t be one. Also generally try to not buy made in china if at all possible.
After seeing what’s happening with the Uyghurs and what’s going on in HK, also the oppression in China itself, I’m thinking the least of my money that ends up with the CCP, the better.
Being politically active myself I’m afraid of potential spying and following harassment too.
China is a dystopian nightmare and I think we haven’t yet realized how bad it really is.
It puts it into perspective, most of the latest China ruckus is started by Trump and is entirely based on racism and lies.
There’s never been any proof spy Huawei spying for example.
I’m not saying there’s not anything going on but ask for proof before you believe everything that’s told to you.
Paraguayan here, I feel you too.
Everyone’s gotta wake up some day.
A good discussion, but IMO you’ll have more effect writing to your congressman – they take notice of shit like that.
Xiaomi will never even know if a single person like you boycotts them.
Sorry Kristoffer, this debate is not about US-China relations. And I don’t think OP mentioned spying in his original post?
If it interests you I habe been living in China for 3 years and I have experienced racism because I happen to look a lot like a Uyghur woman.
So if we turn this debate into a debate about racism, what do you think about the Uyghur situation? Lies spread by the US too? Did I just imagine what I have experienced and are we denying what happens to the Uyghurs?
Unfortunately there is proof, although I wish it was a lie.
Your “Racism” unfortunately goes both ways. Are you racist for saying Trump spreads lies? No, that is your opinion, if you are racist or not, I don’t know that.
Just because you don’t like somebody’s opinion does not make them racist.
I am actually very confused by your use of the word “racist” and the other guy’s use of the word “xenophobic”.
Why are you playing the racism card, this is about politics and ethics.
Sharing an opinion different to yours is not racist or xenophobic but a sign of respect and trust that we can have a civil and honest conversation. You are entitled to your opinion but I hope it is backed up by facts and not by beliefs.
Apple lobbies against laws that would help consumers, only recently did they start supplying parts to third party repair stores (previously they would claim legitimate components being imported were counterfeit and would get the packages confescated at the border).
Apple is too greedy. I picked up some Huawei Freebuds 3 the other day, they’re pretty good and what makes it better is that they’re not Apple.
As a Filipino, same here. But I’m trying, mainly by not buying brand new, though I recently made an exception for my current Mi 9t because I need a replacement phone ASAP.
Yes, I agree with you. Sometimes I think people have a big bias on China. I went to China three years ago. I think it is a pretty good country.
We already have a place in brics. Brazil Russia India China South Africa. Was Just referring to the link between our countries because both SA and Brazil are unfortunately known for being corrupt AF.
I know, i was just joking because Argentina wanted to be a member.
And, you still care about corruption? I just asumed it like something it happens. Like inflation.
China in its current state of massive cheap tech producer likely would not exist if the population and factions weren’t so heavily controlled. You can’t compare Korea or Vietnam with the behemoth that is China.
One also killed millions and millions and millions in wars around the world for oil and other things.
Nicely put!
I’m tired of this argument. Arguing which country is less evil or have better moral is really stupid and pointless, especially between a developed superpower and an emerging superpower.
You only think China is more evil because you got your news through reddit and because US media is dominating the news cycle. Yes US is a democracy and China is not, but democracy doesn’t automatically make everything better, and it has little relevance to workers condition in a country. Take a look at any developing democratic country in SEA, their workers are in a slavery condition too.
Coltan is still a mineral mined by the poorer african countries that abuse their cheap (free?) labour force.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coltan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coltan)
[Vice also did a documentary on this. It’s pretty demoralizing tbh…](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYqrflGpTRE)
poor consumer decisions has nothing to do with politics. eg. bought a bad phone? your fault. you made the decision to buy it.
r/notopbutok
yes. something might change. China might get pissed off and _go all nuclear_. the change would be the extinction of the human race.
You’re asking a French person to not criticize everyone, you’re asking for REVOLUTION
You should not believe US propaganda. Just check this AMA [https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/e9ad4n/i\_am\_rushan\_abbas\_uyghur\_activist\_and\_survivor\_of/](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/e9ad4n/i_am_rushan_abbas_uyghur_activist_and_survivor_of/)
Just delete all the bloatware apps and block ads and reccomendations so that you don’t support them further. Also don’t use MI wallet.
Which communist country wasn’t dictatorship though?
Because it’s about what the alternative to Xiaomi would be.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coltan_mining_and_ethics
I recommend mi-globe, if you’re feeling adventurous, they modify MIUI, firewall or disable the data collection software, they let you remove bloatware before installing, and offer some really useful extras. I’ve been using their stuff on my Redmi 5 Plus for over a year now, no complaints
Software for sure, hardware we don’t know. At least I don’t :p
I don’t think any country is going to start world war 3 over some trade tariffs, not even China. China knows damn well that starting a nuclear holocaust wouldn’t be very good for business either.
i may have exaggerated _a tad_ but my point being: China would probably be pissed off and the whole tariffs thing would backfire. remember that most mass production happens in China.
baaically: don’t poop where you eat.
I get your point but I don’t understand why the thought process should arrive there. I don’t get the what’s the point mentality. Although the decisions I make are almost negligible I still believe that if developed countries build a wiser consumer mentality and we find a better way to support companies doing the ‘right’ (not corrupt, damaging environment, hurting workers and so on) thing we could in affect change how companies operate within developed countries.
I feel it’s important to divide developed from developing countries because there are far more immediate challenges they’re facing. No one should judge how they consume especially when many are living a day by day struggle without basic necessities.
I hope I didn’t go too tangential on this one. I just feel that industries can create consumers but industries can also be shaped by consumers. They’re dependant on each other. If we know that company X is 1% less ‘globally moral’ and the product is more or less equivalent than company Y then we should choose the latter. Is that not reasonable?
Is the issue that we can’t measure whose fucking up the most? :’)
And in addition I’m in no way trying to be a purely good consumer. My phone(s) have(had) Coltan in them then… And sadly I’m not surprised by the harsh reality of that (regarding the indirect funding of wars and kids being subject to slavery). Do I care? Yes. Have I made a difference in that respect? No. But from awareness gives us the ability to consume slightly better than we have in the past (for as much as the wallet allows).
I want companies to adapt to operating in a consumer market where they are rewarded by producing great products without fucking shit up whether it’s environmentally or ethically.
Please poke some holes in what I wrote because I’ve been a bit unsure of my Outlook on this whole matter 🙂 and thanks for commenting!
If your budget would permit would you buy from China or a European country?
First of all. Xiaomi and other chinese smartphone companies haven’t had any scandals concerning their worker’s working conditions, whereas apple for example has had many scandals for underpaying employees, making them work way to long, having children work, not covering expenses for accidents that happened during work and and also having some employees actually commit suicide. Many american companies like Nike and other companies like Zara are also exploiting thousands of children but no one really cares.
In contrast to what media portrays the CCP, because of the socialist nature of the party (even if it isnt completely socialist), because it partially “co owns” a lot of chinese companies, it redestributes a portion of the profit made to the poorest places of the country in order to bring them out of poverty. This has led China have huge growth rates over the past 40 years which transformed China from a poor agricultural country to the superpower that it is today. So not everything is black and white.
My point is. Support the smartphone company that you like. Just dont buy stuff from unknown companies and prefer big ones like Xiaomi, Oneplus, Huawei, Honor and depending on your region maybe even oppo, vivo and realme.
Yeah I mostly agree and its bogus, how some people here claim that other countries/companies are on the same level of corruption and human rights violation.
Not to mention that a lot of companies are moving their production out of china, not only smartphone companies, but semiconductor companies aswell. Includin companies like Apple, Samsung, AMD, NVidia, Asus etc.
Obviously most of these have some shady stuff going on aswell, but theyre atleast not under a totalitarian government, thats commiting genocide and actively trying to annex half of asias international waters and sourrounding territories.
While this is true, we are obviously funding the chinese government passively by buying Xiaomi products.
I am fairly certain the constitution of my country is does not contain 13th amendment you are referring to.
Found the CPP bot.
You seem to be quite misinformed. Your arguments are disingenious and youre bending the truth.
The war in vietnam in “1979” ended in 1991, so saying 1979 is the date is quite misleading.
The PRC has taken parts in different wars since then. They also are basically in cold war with the the RoC (Taiwan), since the Third Taiwan Strait Crisis in 1996. Threatening and trying to annex them on a regular schedule. Just this year they tried to make them accept a “one state two systems” contract.
China has several other ongoing international & human rights conflicts going on including HK-Protests, Nine-Dash Line conflict, Tibet, “Reeducation Camps” etc..
You should not believe either of their propaganda.
If youre building a PC, AMD and Nvidia let manufacture the most of their chips by TMSC (Taiwan Semiconductor Company). Also Samsung is moving out their production lines out of china.
So it is basically possible, to build PCs/Notebooks without chinas involvement.
NoT rEaL GoMmUniSm
Does it come with Fairphone OS?
Too long thread for it’s importance. 90 percent of goods and electronics you buy in any country is made in China. The consumer can basically do nothing it’s up to governments. Boycotting never solved anything.
I totally feel you man, I’m in the same struggle.
It’s hard to find another option, xiaomi’s product are fine and “cheap” for what you get.
If you have any phone to recommand like these, I will strongly thanks you, cause I don’t find any satisfying.
And the other one has concentration camps, is killing people who’s literally just expressing their own opinion and oppressing their entire population in a distopian society.
I’m not saying that USA are perfect, but at least they are a democracy in which there’s the freedom of thought
You probably need to check how many components inside ASUS phone are made in China.
Additionally, in mobile phone industry, there’s such a thing called ODM. ASUS phones probably not all of them are fully made in Taiwan.
Choose ASUS still means you are directly or indirectly paying taxes to China whatsoever.
I’m definitely giving it a thought
At this point I’d install pixel experience I think, but thanks
I switch between that and globe, but I’m on globe since they removed gcam support and I can only use the AOSP camera with an updated px
> if I say I dislike Chinese tea would I be xenophobic too?
If that is the only thing you said it would lack the context hence there would be no corroborating evidence to infer anything else.
OP’s post wasn’t 1-2 lines long, saying I don’t like Chinese meddling in X. He expanded on it, that is what provides the context.
There is no smear as far as I am concerned, this tactic of terming the Chinese Govt disgusting and pre-facing it with loving the Chinese people is an old tactic. Its to safe-guard oneself from potential retaliation on that rhetoric but it is weak and doesn’t work because you can’t lampoon a Govt which those very people not just rate highly but the margin by which they do so is exceptional.
Quantity has a quality all its own.
> Would you say buying products of Chinese origin is ethical/unethical?
There is nothing to it. I am not brand loyal, I go with what makes my life better. Period.
And secondly I am not hypocritical enough to chide American companies because I know for a fact the damage they have done to the world is far greater than China has done. It is not relevant.
If anything it is even more beneficial that there is an alternative, meaning there is no 1 entity on the planet who has to themselves all the abuses in digital space like US/G5 have done for decades.
If for those who worry about these things, they should in fact cheer for this because Competition is what solves such matters, not whining.
> what if OP is from China?
Given what was stated above and in previous comments, in relation to margin of Chinese people who support their Govt, companies and those who are on Reddit from mainland, it is safe to assume he ain’t Chinese and even if he was he would not be Xenophobic but an idiot who is ignorant of 2 questions i asked in the first reply.
So yes, if he was Chinese I’d change my framing from Xenophobic to ignorant.
> ended in 1991, so saying 1979 is the date is quite misleading.
My brief mention of it was fair enough in the larger context of the comment. War did end in 79, minor skirmishes happened over the course of next decade.
PRC-RoC dynamic is unique, its not new and isn’t ending anytime soon either.
PRC has 14 land borders and they have resolved 12 of those (only India-Bhutan, same line) remain. And only once did they ever get more than 50% of original claimed territory. There isn’t a country in the world which has this track record.
They were late to the SCS party, Vietnam has twice as many occupied islands. Barring Brunei of the 6 parties involved, PRC was the last to militarize and reclaim land it just so happens because they are big their scale was bigger.
Rest of your comment is useless. Read the original comment and what the context was, i.e. PRC or its companies aren’t unique. They are coming into a space which had a Lone player doing all the espionage and abuse on the digital waves (let alone in real world).
Therefore this is a normalized space, hence trying to subject the revisionist new player to a NEW form of expectations, which DOES NOT exist to begin with is not just ridiculous, it is what carriers nefarious agenda, or in this comments case i termed it xenophobia since PRC was clearly singled out despite it not being unique in this.
Hence there as no bending of truth.
Snowden happened. Objective Fact.
US has meddled in about 80 countries of the world in the last 6 odd decades. Objective Fact.
And we’re to entertain this nonsense about how some company from China is bad because it is from China and China is bad because it does bad things which everyone else does but we have to call out China because it is “Special”.
Medical mental delusions.
The only delusion is that you neither understand the term xenophobia, nor the economic connection between chinese companies and government.
Even if a chinese company doesnt support the totalitarian government they still make them money passively by operating through china.
And being suspicious of a government doesnt equal xenophobia.
You were and are still bending the truth about chinese participation in political/military affairs, whataboutism doesnt help you with that.
The u.s. doesnt matter in this discussion, since Im highly critical of the u.s. government aswell. But if someone tries to justify their own bad behaviour with other peoples bad behaviour, its obvious theyre missing arguments.
What else did I expect from an r/sino user? A sub where you get banned just for asking for a primary source.
Youre obviously having some major delusion if you cant differentiate between a government and the citizens.
Am I being xenophobic by saying the german and french governments are being corrupt for ignoring elections and selecting the putting their own commision president?
Am I being xenophobic by saying I think the U.S. has a terrible election system and should stop feeling like the center of the world?
So if the answer for one of those questions was no, why is it xenophobic to not support a totalitarian, fake communist, government not playing by international rules?
Your heart is at the right place so kudos for that. But have you ever questioned what you have been told? e.g. Why no country with Muslim majority stands against China but countries where minorities are mistreated condemn the chinese goverment?
Penal labor is a form of slavery. And totally legal.
Please respond to this. Is there a country in your view that has acted more responsible/ethical than China in the past 20 years? Or would you say all countries on Earth have acted more or less the same. I’d be grateful to read your response. Because you know.. r/Sino ain’t the place for any such dialogue :”)
Thanks
They make some exceptional devices! My 5x is still fantastic.
Tariffs actually help moving things slowly, you are talking about sanctions which are hard stops.
It is not impossible to create a preference list and avoid both as possible.
I actually actively try to avoid both and go for third party.
But in electronic the bottom line is that i dont want to disappear or denied at the border or uknowingly ddos human right websites. So no chinese for sure.
Buying any phone is buying from China, those phones that say otherwise are just importing the parts and assembling them.
Maybe it’s just me but I’m fine with children not having jobs.
If you want to be an ethical consumer:
1. Buy used.
2. Buy items with the least profit margin, where said profit margin could finance things you disagree with.
To this extend, Xiaomi is actually a pretty good choice, they sell their devices with very little profit margin, sometimes at or even below cost. Of the few RMBs you may be contributing to Chinese economy by buying Xiaomi, half of that is locked away in savings because China has the highest savings rate in the world.
Buy a more expensive device with a higher profit margin? That margin is going to pay employees from countries with abysmal savings rate, whose likely going to spend the margin on Chinese stuff anyway, and you may end up contributing proportionally more to Chinese economy at the end of the day. Also if you break down the component costs of a typical Xiaomi phone, you’ll be contributing more money to US semiconductor companies whose dual-use tech is used to bomb kids in the middle east than funding Chinese atrocities. Buy from Korea, Taiwan, Japan, countries that buys US military equipment? You’re subsidizing US military industrial complex, while contributions from Chinese supply chain also funds Chinese state interests. As others have mentioned, whatever you choose, you’re enslaving African kids in coltan mines.
There is no ethical consumption etc, if you want to minimize ethical violations, minimize the future purchase power of your spending.
Yeah that’s been my current approach that conveniently aligns with my financial situation. Reusing, buying second hand and repairing broken products instead of discarding them or buying them new
I understand the money falls down a chain and along that chain are links that fuel unethical activities. Say for example I buy product A that turns out 75% goes to absolute terror and 25% to supporting the employees and product B where 70% goes to absolute terror and 30% to the employees would it not be more ethical to purchase product B?
Doesn’t a lot of android phones from Chinese companies contain spyware and other nasty shit? Also android are more susceptible and prone to virus and hacking.
This is probably the only reason I still buy that dumb iPhone.
Cybersecurity ain’t a small fry.
Maybe the Pinephone.
always Chinese. in fact I have replaced all my wears with Chinese brands and most electronics. I’m fed up with Sino phobia. I am supporting every single Chinese brand whenever I can. btw, I am Chinese.
I’m not the “controlled” Chinese you talk about but I have made a decision to buy exclusively Chinese brands whenever possible.
Why do you think people would be phobic of the ‘sino mindset’?
你好雄哥， 你怎么样？
>….by buying these products we are helping the CCP.
How did you come to this verdict ?
Because of the taxes the (CCP) government collects from XM ?
What is your nationality ?
LOL USA INVENTED ALL the techs in the context of spying so guess who did it first LMAO
> Edit: this user is also in the r/Sino community
LOL what a fucking low IQ asshole
What does rSino have anything to do with this.
> u/iVarun has posted there before
What is this gatekeeping nonsense, your reply is even worse than the post itself.
Where i comment is none of your business or the validity or otherwise of the arguments presented.
By this convoluted train of logic I see you comment on rChina, which is a demonstrably obvious racist cesspool for the decade it has existed, not even xenophobic, because xenophobia need not be ethnic, race based, as stated in the definition quoted, *dislike of or prejudice* can apply to anything for any reason or even no reason whatsoever. Being racist is far worse in this escalating chain of bad-ness and my comment didn’t use that term.
I know all this because I used to engage on rChina quite regularly for years till 2015-16 and tried to make the sub a better place by offering fact based analysis on wide variety of topics instead of blatant nonsense from the English teachers who used to dominate there years ago, now that demographic is less but the cesspool has only gotten worse.
I also comment on rXiaomi. I also comment on rWorldnews, another cesspool which is only matched in its anti-China vitriol by rPics which is a category all its own in terms of unbridled unapologetic human ignorance despite having access to unprecedented levels of Open Human Knowledge.
At least the Chinese people can use the excuse they don’t have 100% access to all information, what excuse do these people on these subs have. It is embarrassing.
Regarding rSino, that place arose because rChina became too anti-China and toxic, one couldn’t even communicate without everyone expected to shit on China. No wonder it would give rise to an alternative. The fact it has gone in extreme pro China direction is in alignment with Horseshoe Political theory. Plus it also got hijacked by Alt subs of Asian fame and it has no defense against that because it was too small when starting out. This is natural on Reddit whenever a group is thrown out from a larger sub, it gets captured by the even more silly people.
I have spoken against this many times on rSino (of the odd occasions i drop by there) and I don’t get banned because there is a manner in which one frames their arguments and if it is poor faith based no wonder they are going to have a hard time.
It is also a sub which gets brigaded hard so to counter that at this stage in its growth profile it has resorted to this tactic to maintain a dedicated core. Subs on reddit are pseudo-alive entities like ecosystems. They have an ebb and flow, once rSino is of a certain scale it may allow more pluralistic communication but that is not feasible when their numbers are of the nature they are currently, given Reddit is not a Chinese platform and hence the problems that come with it.
My subs use-case is diverse and varied and It had nothing to do with my comment. I didn’t even originally invoke you commenting on rChina and I could have but still didn’t.
> Is there a country in your view that has acted more responsible/ethical than China in the past 20 years?
None and it is not even close.
There is NOTHING of human affairs post the Civilization era of our species which is worse than Poverty. Absolutely NOTHING.
No country or place on the face of this earth has done more to alleviate that in such a short span of time than China. Their record stands on its own. History will judge who did what on this matter.
Providing space for free speech for 100s of Millions while butchering innocent men, women and children in another corner of the planet ain’t upholding Human Rights or ethical. It is worse because of the level of duplicity involved.
In the same time plus a 3 decades more, [US was involved in electoral process meddling of 80+ countries since WW2 till 2000](https://academic.oup.com/isq/article/60/2/189/1750842) (meaning it doesn’t even include the mess post 911).
And worst still US doesn’t claim this, it claims the other, meaning it is disingenuous to everyone’s faces.
Snowden showed how US is tapping everyone on the planet and they aren’t even necessarily using American Hardware. And you have a problem with Xiaomi being Chinese in some weird manner. Grow the heck up. What do you think happens in a Monopoly? Who suffers most? And who benefits most when that Monopoly is broken.
Meaning the argument becomes self-obvious, IF you want humans to have a certain high level of privacy and freedoms the best chance of that happening is if there are competing systems out there who have an incentives to show they are different.
Why in the heck would US/5Eyes change their decades long global espionage system when they are already the global hegemon. This is 101 common sense stuff. There is no incentive to freaking change.
Another state entering with their own platform might work or it might not work but even in that latter case it would still be better than what was happening under a unitary system because there literally was no freaking choice.
OR, the other side of this argument is, If you want the West/US to continue to dominate or if you are anti-revisionist and for status quo, then it becomes obvious why you would have a problem with what China is doing and how Xiaomi and all fit into that.
Hence in this case it becomes important to state this is the position one is coming from, lest one confuse intentions are benign when they aren’t in reality.
> dislike a government
That is not all you wrote, you provided lengthy context to your post. When the people you say you support say Collectively and with a Scale which is undeniable that the said Govt is right(esp on this matter, even if others/collectively is to be ignored for now), then the attempt by your argument to claim said Govt is “somehow” wrong INHERENTLY implies those people are wrong. All Billion plus of them.
Hence invoking the Chinese people becomes a bad pandering instrument in said argument, to mask the prejudice of what is really going on.
The second part of it was combining this with the context of the subject matter of Digital space surveillance and exploitation.
It is a normalized vector, i.e. in an analogy, you can’t critique someone for drinking water or breathing Oxygen(since everyone does it so calling out 1 who is late to the game is silly), As the core points of differentiation, which is what your post was about, it was related to Xiaomi and how the space around this sector works within Chinese setting. Context is clear and obvious.
> the defence is that the opposing system (usually democracy) is riddled with flaws
I don’t resort to that tactic as a primary recourse, Only when it gets invoked first, like your OP had by the context you used(At that stage it becomes fair game.) or when it is obvious to state because the context of the debate is happening in that space, like for example Geopolitics or macro economics and other stuff where basket of choice available are already limited, hence one can’t use that to berate someone beyond a reasonable amount.
> I can safely (within reasonable parameters) think, say, write and post these ideas without the risk of harm to myself or my family.
This is what requires context.
You assume this is how the West was throughout, is currently and will continue to be. You fail to take into account historical developments (my original comment itself referenced this point).
West can afford to use this tactic currently to a high order because it is powerful and its institutions (State and Non State like Media) are operating under a uniform meta-paradigm which are aligned.
The moment there is a threat to the system the idea they will keep doing so is not just farcical but an intellectual affront and insult.
It is so because West is not special. They are regular humans not some special breed of humans or other species. They are guided by the same Socio-Biological drivers as other human societies on the planet. Hence at marco level fundamentals dictate similar things will happen even if end specifics differ marginally.
Japanese Americans weren’t interned for lulz. There was a reason for it.
African Americans were counted as 3/5 Human in electoral process for a reason.
Come back on this point when places like China and India as Westphalian Nation States (in which they have only existed for 7 decades) have had more decades to centuries.
I am willing to bet they will behave better on the global stage and internally than the West has, both during its Colonial era and post that.
History will define who was more right, correct, fair and HUMANE.
I mean the post-war modern techs i.e. after 1950, No way CCCP had better techs in that time, i mean they were devestitated
Understanding peoples orientation or background (whether that be profession, interest or activities) can give quite a good piece of context for the other person when engaged in a discussion, work project or task. For a place as somewhat ‘extreme’ as r/Sino I do see the relevance. Once again if anyone’s reading this please check it out and see what you think, maybe a lot of us here are completely deluded and maybe you will believe the messages in r/sino are legitimate and unbiased (…) . Free to check it out. It’s simply pro China.
I don’t like pissing on your fire but could you think beyond US and China? I don’t have much interest in the US and am aware of their shortcomings. I would question if equality exists in the US due to the lack of public healthcare, I have to say China has done relatively well at offering affordable medical services.
Call me stupid but I would appreciate if you could write what you want to say as simply as possible without compromising the meaning you wish to write. Sometimes using complex terminology can take away from your points(of course this might just be my incompetency but I’d appreciate it all the same) could you try and write with ?
Specifically this;
“I can safely (within reasonable parameters) think, say, write and post these ideas without the risk of harm to myself or my family.” (My quote)
“This is what requires context.
You assume this is how the West was throughout, is currently and will continue to be. You fail to take into account historical developments (my original comment itself referenced this point).
West can afford to use this tactic currently to a high order because it is powerful and its institutions (State and Non State like Media) are operating under a uniform meta-paradigm which are aligned.
The moment there is a threat to the system the idea they will keep doing so is not just farcical but an intellectual affront and insult. ” (Your quote)
Have you honestly merged your identity with the Chinese government? I know a lot of Chinese are incredibly nationalistic (to the point of naive defensiveness) but really? I’m not implying Chinese are wrong, absolutely not, many are but born into it trying to make a living and provide for their families. I’m implying that the Chinese government is disgusting because it simply doesn’t represent the people, it has helped the people in recent years boosting education/literacy, medicine, reducing poverty and so much for business and infrastructure. And it’s amazing the achievements accomplished by the the CCP with the work of the chinese people. But I would be hesitant to say that by stating critique to the CCP inherently critiques Chinese people.
That’s simply not the case. I would say you are what makes the Chinese government so strong. Your loyalty is outstanding, you only seem to question and critique what’s outside of china and find everyway to discredit what someone else has to say about the CCP.
Do you think criticism is more of a western tool to damage the unity of China or do you think there is any valid space for critique of the CCP? Is the CCP but a faultless system? By asking this please don’t jump to thinking that I believe every other country is somehow better or that I think the West is without flaws. that’s not the case. I want to read if you know ANY shortcomings from Xijinping and his squad. Any!? Or are you simply but inspired and consumed by all the good things they’ve (CCP) with the hard work of Chinese people have accomplished?
They’ve accomplished major things, just like a professional athlete. But should the athlete not be able to take criticism? Should team members be silenced instead of sharing their constructive criticism with the athletes slightly weak backhand? Or is criticism seen as a tool to dismantle China? (I hope you understand the analogy).
Also, what are your thoughts on Maozidong? Any flaws with him or do you think he’s a pure legend?
People, we are all people. We’re the same fucking species and I’m so glad we get to communicate about things we disagree on. Awaiting your response!
Please pass me the tissues! You got me all teary :’) … 😉 Have a nice day stranger.
Don’t break his picture of the world drawn by Fox news and Marvel, or whatever he watches. Soon he will learn to use internet and will see a different point of view, no need to force. Now he thinks the fatherland of Captain America, homeland of organizations with too many Ks in it’s name, could save all of the world, let him think so.
All Russian phones (there are not so many) are made in China. And we don’t feel guilty buying Chinese phones.
All those companies are registered in Taiwan only cause USA can’t give all the patented technologies to mainland China directly.
Both of your sentences are not 100% true. Can’t even tell exactly which one is more wrong.
Ah yes, the negotiator
whatever you buy in this world, 90% is from China, so what do you expect ?! Apart from suicide you won’t buy a solution to avoid supporting the skumbags.
Ridiculous, reduce where possible is a fair approach
Keep dreaming 🙂
What’s wrong with the CCP? I don’t see them bombing anyone. It’s the US govt that does those things.
I support penal labor, you perform a serious crime, you will pay for it, I don’t see why prisoners shouldn’t be treated like that